Remember this???

Subject: Remember this??? Thu Apr 23, 2009 12:40 pm

Yeti1818 wrote:: I think people r forgetting whats it mean to be a "team"

http://counterstrikesourcetactics.blogspot.com/2008/02/teamwork-guide-for-css-and-cs-16.html

So Yeti posted that shit up about not talking shit, and about trusting your team, and playing well together.
Did anyone on this team actually read it?
I seem to remember a few weeks ago everyone was complaining about me being an ass. Does anyone else remember that? Ask Duke if you don't.
Well, today during a scrim, it was chaos. Most people were not playing their spots correctly (we never actually practice regular spots, because we don't have practice times), and people are just treating others like shit.
What we are doing right now as a team isn't scrimming, it's pugging. We have ZERO strats, have had no practices, and we literally lose 75% of our matches (unless we have a ringer that is from another team).
We start BOE soon. How are we going to do well? No one is even talking about that.
I like being on this team, but I also like to get better and win.
Please give me feedback on what you guys think.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:48 pm

Memento Mori wrote:: (we never actually practice regular spots, because we don't have practice times)

We do have regular spots when there are regulars on. The 5 USUALS for scrimming are:
-Momento Mori
-Extacy
-Oblivion
-Boob (RIC)
-Duke

-STI, Demo and Vic often sub in. I think the biggest problem here isn't that we don't have practice times, it's that we don't have a 5 player CONSISTENT team set up. I'm not saying it's wrong, but Mori, you NEED to start using your TEAM for ringers. That means that dSki and all your other friends need to be LAST options. I know that he helps us, and he's a great guy, but he will NOT be there helping us when BOE starts.

people are just treating others like shit.

When I'm on, it's usually a cool, chill place. There really isn't ever any "fighting" per say, and any arguments settle quickly. HOWEVER, that being said.. it takes TWO to tango. So if I was ever complaining about fighting, I would be one of the two partaking in the fight. More than one person is to be blamed, so let this all be a lesson to everyone. Every team has there up's and down's, but in the end we are a team, and that's the bigger picture, that's what needs to be looked at.

What we are doing right now as a team isn't scrimming, it's pugging.

Negative sir. It's only pugging when we don't have all 5 members of a team. When someone asks me if I play for Leg|Tac, I say yes, and I say yes proudly. I wear the tag because I am proud of where I stand. I know that we are inexperienced and that our team could use some help and some pointers, but this TAKES TIME. No CAL-I or -IM team made it to where they are by putting together 5 guys and starting out. Progressing is something that takes time. Patience is needed.

We have ZERO strats, have had no practices, and we literally lose 75% of our matches (unless we have a ringer that is from another team).

We do have strats. I know we do. I have gone over them with you and others, we know how to work well on some maps, and other still need work. I don't believe that we lose 75% of our matches. I think that you are boosting our "non-team" ringers WAY too much. In fact, I believe you are boosting dSki. I have played with him numerous times, and I KNOW that he is VERY skilled at this game. What you have to realize Mori, is that dSki is not going to be there to hold your hand all the way through BOE. Winning comes with practice and determination. If you have no faith in your team, you have no faith in winning.

We start BOE soon. How are we going to do well? No one is even talking about that.
I like being on this team, but I also like to get better and win.
Please give me feedback on what you guys think.

We do start BOE soon. I know this. How are we going to do? I really think that we are gonna lose first or second round. I really do. Why? because it's our first time, and everyone is nervous. Whether or not you are is besides the point. Most of us haven't really done this before, and we haven't mastered the art of being calm-cool and collected yet.

All in all, my thoughts are quite vague. I don't know where I stand in this clan, and I don't want to seem as someone who is trying to take over. I think of myself as a decent player, I donate to the server, and I would like to think I am ambitious. My voice is only as loud as you want to hear. I love making friends, and meeting new people, but meeting new people shouldn't mean making enemies. I chose to be in this clan because there are a bunch of cool guys that are as determined as me and want to go far. We can do it, I know we can. We have a bunch of solid members here, and with some input from higher up (i.e dSki and some of Mori's other CAL - I+++ friends) we can make it far. Every clan will storm. We will all have our issues. But like I said - at the end of the day, we are a team.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Thu Apr 23, 2009 1:54 pm

I just want to clarify that I have nothing against you Mori. I really don't. I think you are a good guy. I have my opinions - as well as others, but I'm just saying this cause you asked for my opinion on the issue. I hope this doesn't/already didn't screw anything between us. (NoHomo)

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:23 pm

I did ask for feedback and thank you for giving it.
But I think you missed the point.
You said the words "we will get better with practice and determination." What is your idea of practice? What is anyone heres idea of practice? All good teams have sessions where they get together and just spec one person and he walks them through maps and tells them strats. That is how you learn what everyone is doing.

"Rush B" or "Rush long" isn't a strat. It's a hope that our flashes and our shots and going to get lucky and kill people. If you watch demo's of any good team (any cgl) they never rush. They will do controlled pushes and make picks, but never a push. We need to plan fake-outs, reverse rushes, even rotations.
How many times has the bomb been planted at another site with no one in it? Way too many.
I think the main problem is everyone is used to playing on pubs and having an amazing kdr. It doesn't matter how good of a shot you are, teamwork and strategy will win.
And most the people that "have consistent spots" don't even know how to play them (not saying anyone is bad), it's just that they play the spot and no one has showed them how to play it correctly.

And saying that I talk up dski too much is just ridiculous. I listen to him because he wins. He plays with the best people in the game (people that get payed to play). And he has helped my game improve ten-fold. How many demo's is the team watching? How many of us are playing with main or invite players? How many are trying to learn from them? The real question is, Why aren't we?

You also asked why I'm not asking people like Vicodin or Bubbs or other people to scrim, when I can get a ringer with experience. My answer is only that I would like someone who knows what "candlestick" is, or "cpl house." It isn't a scrim anymore if someone doesn't know how to play a spot. It's just chaos.

If everyone just thinks that we will just get better, we won't. We actually have to listen and practice. No more baiting, or not watching your spots.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:26 pm

Memento Mori wrote:: And saying that I talk up dski too much is just ridiculous.

I never said that you talk him up. All I'm saying is that his help is appreciated, but when you turn down a team member a spot in a scrim FOR dSki, that is wrong. Let the member play. dSki should watch a comment on the problems made in that scrim and show us how to improve. If his idea of helping our team is by carrying it, that's wrong. He isn't on the team, therefore he should not partake in "practices" for the team.

You also asked why I'm not asking people like Vicodin or Bubbs or other people to scrim, when I can get a ringer with experience. My answer is only that I would like someone who knows what "candlestick" is, or "cpl house." It isn't a scrim anymore if someone doesn't know how to play a spot. It's just chaos.

To this all I have to say is shame on you. If you are the leader of our team (I have this impression), you need to lead it. If you have the access to team members as opposed to your friends (whatever caliber player they may be) you should ALWAYS take your team member. If they don't know what 'candlestick' is or what "SA1" is, you should SHOW them and TEACH them so they know for future reference. Avoiding them and covering them up isn't being a good leader. As for overthrowing your team mates - I'm just saying that if I got a ringer (i.e from mIRC) and then you pop up right before a scrim, the ringer can walk. I don't care if the ringer is CEVO-P. The fact is you are a team member and you belong on the team.

If everyone just thinks that we will just get better, we won't. We actually have to listen and practice. No more baiting, or not watching your spots.

In your opinion, what's baiting? How about watching your own spots? I still have no idea what "Truck side mid" is. No one has yet to show me. I think that if you want people to stop doing these things, you need to inform them of what they are doing wrong and help them fix it. Also, if you want people to start doing something correctly, you should show them how. If I am not playing "Banana" correctly, you should suggest somethings. If someone doesn't know what Banana is, then you should let them know. Somethings you JUST can't teach yourself.

A good leader takes charge. A good leader is a team player. A good leader gives direction. But a good leader also listens and takes what others have to say into account. If someone isn't doing something right, no matter your knowledge on the map, or someone else's knowledge of the map, the best thing you can do for that person is - First listen to what they have to say, suggest improvement(s), and go from there. You can't just give direction without follow up and hope everyone knows what they are doing.

I happen to be a manager where I work. If I tell somebody to go and sweep and not check up on it - how do I know it's getting done? I don't. If you tell someone to play truck side mid and you don't check up on that - how do you know they are doing it correctly if doing it at all?

My point is that you need to follow up on strategies and plans that you make. For instance, when we played Nuke for the first time, We ran over some strategy on T side before playing. For example the vent strat. Everyone knew what they were supposed to do when we called out 'Vent Strat' because we went over it as a team. We haven't ONCE since nuke gone over ANY strats as a team. Maybe we should.

As I said earlier, I don't plan on going very far in BOE. If we do, SWEET! But I'm not going in with high expectations. If you do, you'll be let down. It takes planning, it takes skill and it takes TEAMWORK to move up. Without the other 4 players on your team, you would be shit. Let this first season of BOE be our lesson.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:42 pm

You said I need to go over with people what to do in each map, and that is what I was stating earlier. But when people get on they just want to scrim. Thats what is annoying me the most. I think each person should spend hours just playing the maps looking for sweet spots, or I will go on with everyone individually and show them the best way to play every spot.

That is what I mean by practice. And honestly you think Vicodin and Bubbles or anyone else not on the lg team is going to want to hear me for hours? If they do, then awesome. But if not, I would want someone I know can do the map. That is what I meant.

I just wish people actually would ask for help, instead of assuming they know the right ways to play things.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:53 pm

Memento Mori wrote:: And honestly you think Vicodin and Bubbles or anyone else not on the lg team is going to want to hear me for hours?

This isn't the issue. I know Vicodin is RARELY on and that Bubbles is either not on, hooked on office, or not even registered under the team - but the fact remains that you should take your team before you take others. As for talking to them for hours, you should listen to what they have to say first and make improvements on that.

I got my performance review recently (10 days ago, to be exact). My store manager told me that the only thing I need to improve on is my interaction with my crew people. He said that at a Rap-Session (You go there and bitch about things you have to bitch about) people were saying that I'm good at what I do, but I don't make work fun, I don't make incentives, I don't make them want to be there. He also said that I should listen more to what they had to say, and to try and make the workplace different from home.

I just wish people actually would ask for help, instead of assuming they know the right ways to play things.

I would have to TOTALLY agree with you on this issue. Sometimes, people are just too shy to come out and say they aren't good at something or if they need help/have questions. A way around this would be to ask if they had any questions. By doing this, the person you are asking is given a window of refuge, basically a way out... they can explain their problems and not feel bad about doing it.

I am not saying or imposing that I want to be the leader at all. I think that Mori is doing a fine job. Nobody is perfect and with some coaching and practice from others, people can only improve.

Admin Posts : 39 Join date : 2009-03-09

Memento Mori wrote:: I think each person should spend hours just playing the maps looking for sweet spots, or I will go on with everyone individually and show them the best way to play every spot.

I just have to point this out Mori cause this is the shit pisses me off so much.

Your not god at this game dude and a lot of the time i feel like you think that you are. Dont think that we need YOU to show us how to play spots on the map.... You know?

I just don't feel that we need to look up to YOU just cause dski has showed you how to play a few maps maybe.

Admin Posts : 39 Join date : 2009-03-09

Oh and i am starting to take back what i said about have just one team because i think that a lot of the time in scrims tensions are really tight between certain players and it has been happening since the beginning. Just a suggestion to have to. I'm not going to hide it either. For example i don't really get along with Mori to well all the time and same goes for Ex sometimes. Its just how it is and we know it. We are just opposites. I'm not sure if that was appropriate to say or not but i did. Neutral

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:55 am

eatmylead wrote:: Oh and i am starting to take back what i said about have just one team because i think that a lot of the time in scrims tensions are really tight between certain players and it has been happening since the beginning. Just a suggestion to have to. I'm not going to hide it either. For example i don't really get along with Mori to well all the time and same goes for Ex sometimes. Its just how it is and we know it. We are just opposites. I'm not sure if that was appropriate to say or not but i did.

It's totally appropriate. I know that sometimes people have there issues and people have there opinions. The main problem is how we approach the issue(s). There is always a better solution to a problem - you just have to find it.

Posts : 36 Join date : 2009-03-10 Age : 32

Well I apparently have some reading and catching up to do lol. This is my first week back at school from spring break so Im not finding a lot of time, mostly since im exhausted with my new sleeping patterns.

Lately I seem to be playing the role of a mediator between numerous members, and frankly I'm getting fed up with it. Its not even PROBLEMS that people are bringing up to me, its whining. Not naming names, not targetting or hating on anyone, but when i get messages like "Blank is pissing me off." Good for you, I rele dont care how u guys feel about each other. I get along with EVERYONE on this team fine. I have no issues with anyone on this team currently.

Yes Mori, I did read what Yeti posted, and I agree with one of the main points there "You cant be teammates with people you cant be friends with." People on this team need to stop sending their shit back n forth through me and start talking like grown men to each other.

i want to do great in BOE, and if you didnt know that you know it now. I WANT to take the time to learn each map. I get dropped into a Contra scrim or train scrim and i feel like im sitting there with my dick in my hand than a gun. We need to go over this shit as a team. dSki is awesome, he can help us a ton.

Everyone on this team needs to take a minute, STFU, swallow their pride, and realize that you aint going to win without knowing what everyone else is up to.

-Duke.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:54 am

I have to agree with eatmylead. Mori i like u but u talk all the time as if ur the only one who watches demos and has friends that r cevo-p and what not. People need to stop trying to take charge as if they know whats the best strats. when u get in a scrim or match, people need to talk to everyone as an equal and just figure out where people like/good at playing and get ur shit together as a team. team!! team!! team!!! team!!! not a leader and 4 followers!!!

And people keep on saying we need to practice. well scrims are practice, granted maybe after a scrim on a map the team sees a thing or two that needs to be practiced so u go and work on it but scrims are how we're gunna get better.

team!!team!!! team!! mother fuckin team!!!!

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:22 am

Yeti you said a team is not a leader and 4 followers? If you can name one team, just one, that is cal-m level or up, that doesn't have a leader making and calling strats and telling when to buy, then i will quit trying to be a leader.

You also said that we will get better from playing scrims and that is good enough practice. How many scrims are you playing a week? And also, just playing scrims, how is that helping us to call more strats? If people don't know what the strats are, then they don't work.

Another thing you said is to listen to people about where they like to play/where they are good at, and let them play it. What if that person isn't good at that spot? What if the team is getting flanked every round because one person doesn't know what they are doing? What if 5 people want to play the same spot? That's why there is a leader to help figure all of that out so we don't keep doing as poorly as we are.

And yes I'm sure everyone has friends that are CGL level and are amazing. But what I posted earlier is that you should get them to go over the maps and show you how to play correctly. That's what I've been doing and when i try to share what they tell me, I'm considered "arrogant."

This is a quote about us from people who are way better right now, "Your guys have good shots but you aren't a team, you are just a bunch of guys who all tag up together."

I don't want to be that anymore, and that is what I've been trying to say.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:32 pm

then if ur getting rapped from one side"talk" as a team and figure it out. either move him or teach him how. and i never implied that im on alot or that im good! work strats after scrims if u need. i never said u shouldnt, i implied u should.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:22 pm

Yeti please don't repeat my words and make them your own.
You said first I shouldn't act like a leader with 4 followers. Then you went on to say that I should go over spots with people that don't know how to play them.

I said that we needed to practice strats BEFORE scrims, that way people know what they are doing. What is the point of going over spots and practice after we lose? We already lost. We need to put in the time now.

And once again you didn't answer my questions about leadership. I asked you to name one team that doesn't have an in game leader, and that was avoided.

Also, if you say that you agree with practice, then that is amazing. So in regards, I think we should implement a rule that requires anyone competing to practice a set number of hours a week (not a specific schedule, just number of hours). I am on at least 8 hours a day. I will help anyone practice in any way. If you want to compete with the team, you should work for it.

If you owned your own business, who would you rather have working for you:
Someone who you have known for awhile but only comes to work when they want?
Or someone new who will come to work everyday and bust his ass to prove himself?

It might seem a little drastic, but that is how people take league play. And that is what separates the good from the bad.

Subject: Re: Remember this??? Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:32 am

sigh*
i have no idea what to say to u cuz everything i say is missunderstood. and nothing i was saying early was directed to u, it was to averyone.

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